Speaker 0 00:00:01 Welcome to this Centrum podcast. For more podcasts or to join Centrum programs, building Creativity in Community, visit us at centrum org.
Speaker 3 00:00:25 I'm Michelle Haywood, and this is On Air, a podcast focusing on conversations with artists and creatives. From Centrums Residency community. I am broadcasting to you from the lands and waters of the coast, Salish people in a place known as Katai to the Squa people, and today known as Port Towns in Washington. This podcast is focused on bringing artists together in community to explore the ways that place, process, and the personal intersect. We dive into the many ways that artists are responding to the current times affecting change and finding sustenance during health, climate, and social crisis. Join us and take an hour to be in residence and unpack your own relationships to creativity, time and place. Thank you for being here and enjoy this episode,
Speaker 6 00:03:15 But we can't say anything mean. Thank you for having us out, Michelle. We appreciate
Speaker 7 00:03:19 It. Yeah, shout out Michelle. Thanks.
Speaker 6 00:03:21 Shout out Michelle, for real.
Speaker 7 00:03:22 Yeah. Hell yeah.
Speaker 6 00:03:23 Um, yeah. Do you want to go first with the introductions?
Speaker 7 00:03:26 Um, how about I'll ask you to introduce yourself. Okay, sure. Who are you? What's your name? Uh, what kinda rd do
Speaker 6 00:03:32 You My sign?
Speaker 7 00:03:34 <laugh>? Yeah. What's your
Speaker 6 00:03:34 Sign? Actually, I did my chart. Do you wanna see it
Speaker 7 00:03:37 <laugh>? Sure. Yeah.
Speaker 6 00:03:38 I don't know if, I don't know if you'll run for the Hills or not <laugh>, but, um, yeah, my name is Spencer Garland. Uh, he, him, his, um, I'm a interdisciplinary artist from Portland, Oregon, who, no, I'm not from Portland. Brief distinction. I'm not from Portland. I live in Portland. Um, and yeah, I'm just, I'm just happy to be here. Um, yeah. Who are you? My friend?
Speaker 7 00:04:05 <laugh>. Yo. What's up? Um, Maxim Milano. Um, they, them, um, yeah, I'm not from Portland, but I live in Portland, <laugh>. Um, I've been in Portland for the last few years. Um, I do, yeah, I do performance, I do video, um, some curatorial collaborations and painting, sculpture, thought gifs, et
Speaker 6 00:04:31 Cetera. Anything new media, old media, classic media,
Speaker 7 00:04:34 Classic vintage media,
Speaker 6 00:04:37 <laugh> Vintage media. Uh, I don't know if, I don't know if I'm an enemy or not. I'm looking at that. I'm a, uh, I
Speaker 7 00:04:44 Think it's
Speaker 6 00:04:44 Virgo. Virgo,
Speaker 7 00:04:46 Virgo Sun. Is
Speaker 6 00:04:46 It Virgo
Speaker 7 00:04:47 Rising? You're, no, you're Sagittarius rising.
Speaker 6 00:04:49 Sagittarius
Speaker 7 00:04:50 Rising, but you're Virgo Sun and then, um,
Speaker 6 00:04:53 Gemini Moon.
Speaker 7 00:04:54 Yeah, Gemini Moon. But then your Mars and Venus are in cancer, so that means you love and live like a cancer.
Speaker 6 00:05:01 What does that mean though?
Speaker 7 00:05:03 Um, cancers are like, they're the crab, so they kind of like move sideways toward this things they want. They're not like necessarily always direct. Yeah,
Speaker 6 00:05:13 I definitely <laugh> definitely abstracted how I, I wanted to get to where I'm going, so that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 7 00:05:21 Um, and then your Libra are your Mercurys in Libra, so that means you communicate like a Libra. Um, but I don't know too much about like Libra in that way, but I think whatever Libra traits are come out in your communication style.
Speaker 6 00:05:33 Apparently I did my co-star run, so that's not even accurate. But it's, I definitely know that I'm the ultimate Virgo. That's what I can, what I can say about myself for sure. So, but yeah. Uh, tell me about how did you get to, you know, w what art you do now? Like what from, where did the compulsion to create things on that scale come from for you?
Speaker 7 00:05:59 Um, I've always kind of like done creative things. Like, as a little kid, me and my brother used to like, sit in our rooms and like draw together.
Speaker 6 00:06:07 And that was in Dallas, right?
Speaker 7 00:06:08 Um, yeah, that was even before Dallas. Like, I grew up in Dayton, Ohio before we moved, uh, to Dallas. So like, even, and, but that was like seven when he moved. So even before then, like being like five or whatever, um, me and my brother would like draw in our room together. Um, so I was always like a, a drawer and I would like doodle on like my test papers and like all that kind of stuff. Um, and then like as a teenager I was like in like, tagging and like graffiti and stuff like that. Um, but I wasn't thinking about it like, as art or the way I was thinking about it now. And so I was always like, yeah, like interested in like, color and movement and like visual movement and, um, mark making and stuff like that. It wasn't until I was like 20 and like in school that I was like, oh, maybe I do want to like, pursue painting. Um, so I started out painting and drawing before I moved into like, performance stuff. Um, and I just like, besides always like, had this like, inner desire to like, make or create, and I've just been finding out that there's so many ways to do it in so many, like, forms of expression, um, which has been really fun to like, explore and like, find out about.
Speaker 6 00:07:14 That's cool. Yeah.
Speaker 7 00:07:15 What, uh, what brought you to your practice?
Speaker 6 00:07:20 I think, I mean, just much like, I think everybody who's here, just anybody who likes to create things. Um, I started young, uh, I was, um, one of those transracial adoptees. So I was just at, I was, and I know I was an only child, so it was kind of like an escape for me. I wasn't, I never really, and I still can't draw, but I saw, um, I saw my dad showed me Jurassic Park when I was three, and I was like, I'm gonna do that. Uh, I don't know how or, or when, but I'm going to, I'm gonna do that whole thing. So, I mean, I just kind of learned from watching the making of Jurassic Park. That's probably my favorite piece of media ever. It just taught me everything that I need to do and how I should like, build a team in order to achieve those, um, those goals.
Speaker 6 00:08:14 So it just kind of did that, just messed around with video. I, I think, uh, my generation, our collective generation was special because we had access to YouTube and it's just like open filmmaking up to anybody who wanted to try it. So I don't, um, take those time, those early YouTube days for granted at all. Looking back on it now, it was just a lot of fun just hanging out and absolutely just like, go in berserk now, you know? And I can show it to you later. Like, it's cool seeing myself, um, from like, probably, I, I mean, I was making videos since I was way younger than that, but like, when I started posting when I was like 14, it's just not gonna go away.
Speaker 7 00:08:59 Like, they're still up on YouTube
Speaker 6 00:09:00 Now. They're still up on YouTube. Yeah. People can find, people can find a lot of footage of
Speaker 7 00:09:05 Me. So do you, do you have like the same channel you had back
Speaker 6 00:09:07 Then? No. No. That's just, it's just kind of scattered because I never really dedicated to making my own channel. I was more of the, the director, I was the facilitator, so I was really working on like learning how to produce and stuff. Um, like in high school I just, and actually no, like earlier than that, like in middle school and high school, I was just trying to figure out how to, um, get like vintage cars for this like film north thing I was doing. But then the guy would stop responding when I told him that only one of us could drive <laugh>. Uh, that was one of, that's one of my best bits for sure. Um, but yeah, then I just kind of went to college and wasn't, um, happy just reading books about filmmaking, which I'm glad that I did, uh, because it helped me out a lot.
Speaker 6 00:09:57 But I just wanted to make things. And then I found people who were also interested in making things. Uh, some of which were from like elementary and middle school. We just went to the same college. So it, uh, it worked out in the way that I found the people that I needed from like that, you know, that thread line or that through line came from watching the making of Jurassic Park and, um, yeah. But I was never into just like one thing either. Like you, it was just kind of like, it's all interesting. It's all interconnected. Yeah. And, uh, I just wanted to do all of it if I can. So, yeah.
Speaker 7 00:10:35 So what were your like, early like videos like, or about
Speaker 6 00:10:39 <laugh>? What were my early videos about? We did like, I mean, school projects, cuz that's like the first era where you could really do that in that way. So there was, um, there was a, there was like, uh, 48 hour film contest that I used to do and like trailer contests that I used to do. Um, what, what else? I never did, I never did like a bad educational rap like a lot of people did. That was never, that was never my scene. You
Speaker 7 00:11:14 Still have that, uh, space in your resume. I
Speaker 6 00:11:16 Still have that space in my resume. I know who did it. I can find those videos. Uh, but I, I, me, I could never, um, I did remember, I think I was, I was like in fifth grade and I had this thing called the Viter, which was like this really awful Mattel video camera for children. Yeah. And I filmed a, I filmed like a news report about typhoons on it, and I have that video. I can show that to you too. Oh shit. I was very, um, round then for sure. That's the nicest way of saying it. But yeah, that's kind of like what the early videos were. It's just like playing around. I took it really serious too. I was just like, I should have just had been having fun doing it then, but I was like, I'm gonna be Spielberg. And I was like, it doesn't really matter. Uh,
Speaker 7 00:12:07 So you always kind of like, had that like, vision from the days of watching Jurassic Park, you're like, oh, piece Spielberg. Yeah.
Speaker 6 00:12:14 Yeah. I then it, it, it resonated. Like, I don't even want to do that anymore. I just wanna make, um, and I feel like, I think like this goes for you too. It's just like, there's not a lot of people who look like me in the space that I, I want to go into one, but also if you want to do movies on that scale, you have to talk about trauma, which, I mean, everything is trauma informed, but I don't want to make the the struggle movie. I think since I'm, especially since I work with kids, like something fun that people haven't seen before. Especially if they have my skin tone. Like we're so accustomed to playing the villain, I just want to, you know, offer an alternative to that. So, yeah. Yeah. That's, that's the, that's the goal for me. That's the goal for what I have for the kids too, cuz I teach. Um, I just want them to be able to make something that represents them and they're the, they're the hero. Yeah. Uh, because historically all minority groups have been the villain. So
Speaker 7 00:13:22 What, uh,
Speaker 6 00:13:23 Just trying to switch that
Speaker 7 00:13:24 Up. What age or grades do you teach
Speaker 6 00:13:28 Anywhere from like, I guess third or fourth to high school is kind of a mix of all of it.
Speaker 7 00:13:37 And like, do some of the kids remind you of yourself?
Speaker 6 00:13:40 Yeah, all of them. All of them remind me of all of them. Remind me of me in, in certain ways. Like there's kids that are reserved, but then there's the, the extroverts who are really going for it. Um, it's very easy to lean into like the kids that really wanna be there and really strive to like, make art and wanna show it off. But I'm trying to reach the kids that don't even know that they're capable of doing that more. So, um, it's harder to get through to them, but when it clicks they're like, oh, I am capable of doing that. And that, that's a good feeling for sure. You know? How does, um, how does your work like, inform who you are and like background and stuff like that? How did you put your identity into it? For sure.
Speaker 7 00:14:28 Um, yeah, I definitely use my work to explore like the fluidity of identities. The multiplicity of identities. Um, either like internal ID identities within like the self mm-hmm. <affirmative> or even like different like, um, you know, exterior boxes we fit in from like race and gender, um, to, to like class or something, which I feel like are like the, the, the exterior categorizations of identities. But then you're like, then you have your internal identities of am I like quiet or am I loud? Am I shy? Am I reserved? Am I brave? Um, so I definitely like, feel that and like explore that through my work. And, and, and I'm interested in like, cuz like, I feel like people, not like people, but like whiteness like wants life to be really like categorized mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And like everything fits into a box and like, if, if it doesn't fit into a box, it's like cut off to fit into the box.
Speaker 7 00:15:35 So I'm really interested in like, the reality of life was just so much more messy and so much more, like, harder to categorize and then like, things don't fit into boxes. And I feel that way for like people and for like identities and, um, these like messy areas where things like mix and merge. Um, especially with like, yeah, with like racial identity, um, gender and like playing with these things through, through performance, through movement, through like, um, I guess like a recontextualization of like pop culture, uh, pop culture images or certain, like people from pop culture, um, bringing that in, um, to other definitions of self throughout like time maybe historically. And kind of like juxtaposing all those things to show maybe that it's like absurd and that it's like extremely like nuanced. Um, you know,
Speaker 6 00:16:33 Does the, like, I mean, especially over the last two years for sure, I mean, it's become very, it's become very apparent how, I mean, Portland's what the white, it's the whitest city in America per capita. Which I guess I can just lead into that question. Like, moving to Portland's from Dayton, Ohio or Dallas. Like how was the, the shift for you? Just demographically, culturally all?
Speaker 7 00:17:00 Yeah, it was definitely a shift. Um, I didn't realize how small Portland was or you
Speaker 6 00:17:05 Didn't see the same person every day. <laugh>. It was like, oh, you're in class with me, <laugh>. Oh, you're at the gallery show. <laugh>.
Speaker 7 00:17:12 Yeah. So that's a trip I didn't, I'd never visited Portland before I moved there. Um, which looking back maybe I should've. Um, <laugh> <laugh>, well
Speaker 6 00:17:21 Not food carts,
Speaker 7 00:17:23 <laugh>,
Speaker 7 00:17:24 Um, but it was definitely that thing. And I think like now, I mean it definitely that thing of like feeling white and I think a lot of people when they first moved to Portland are like, where are the black people? I think like white people say that. I think black people say that. But I also like from living in Portland for a while now, there's definitely like a, a black community in Portland of like black people that like are from Portland. And I think that get really annoyed when <laugh> other people are like, there's no black people here. It's like, yo, we're here, we've been here redlining and like racism has like, you know, pushed us out, especially like in Northeast and stuff. Um, but I definitely, when I definitely first started gonna school, I definitely felt like the whiteness of that city. Especially cuz I feel like whiteness functions so differently in Portland than it does like Dallas, Texas, you know? Um, there's so much more like smiley or like smile on your face or Black Lives Matter sign in the, in their front yard, but we'll just, just as likely to call the police on you or something. Um, so that, that definitely was a trip
Speaker 6 00:18:19 For me. There's not Paul Walls <laugh>.
Speaker 7 00:18:22 Yeah. There's no Paul Walls Paul that be a trip. Yeah. There's no Paul Wall. There's no, uh, dirty third. Um, you can't keep it true in Portland. No,
Speaker 6 00:18:30 No <laugh>. No. You gotta keep it buttoned up.
Speaker 7 00:18:33 Yeah. Um, but I was like, I felt lucky, like in my, in my class, my cohort, um, I had a few of my classmates were also people of color, so I feel like we were able to form like our own little community. I think like some of my other friends were in like classes where like they were the only black person or they were the only person of color. And that seemed so much more like intense. Um, so I do feel lucky that like my, my cohort had a, had a group of people that I felt tied to. Um, but that's also why one of my projects we started was Nat Turner project, which is like a curatorial project that we do, um, for like black and Bipo artists. Um, so that project definitely started as a response to like, what me and my collaborator, uh, shout out Melanie Stevens, um, were feeling when we first moved to Portland, cuz Melanie was coming from Atlanta and I was coming from Dallas. Um, so it was definitely a culture shock in that way.
Speaker 6 00:19:28 I mean, yeah, I've never, my parents were from the east coast. My dad was from, my dad is from Baltimore, my mom was from DC so I would like go back every so often. And I mean, looking back at it now, there was a lot of, um, I mean it was just, uh, they were, they were a lot of things that I didn't realize until recently. So it's like, oh, okay. That's how things actually were. But I definitely liked going to bigger population centers where there was just things going on. I'm just trying to bring that kind of energy to where I'm living now. Like, I don't expect to be able to make museums, but I can make a digital, uh, like a digital one and the, the people, whoever wants to, I don't want to shangle this cord <laugh>, whoever wants to go and enjoy this like digital museum can get access to it.
Speaker 6 00:20:23 That's like kind of what my whole MO is now, just trying to explore that. Um, but yeah, poor one's a very, a very interesting place. I'm, I like living there. I think it's a beautiful place. I think there's a lot of good people in it for sure. Um, but yeah, I mean there, there is a black population. It's just, um, it's been forced out, but the, you know, it's the, the, uh, resilience of bipo people everywhere. They've always figured out how to have some form of community and I just like doing that and hopefully I can help in any way that I can to, you know, cultivate that more. Um, yeah.
Speaker 7 00:21:04 Oh yeah. You mentioned this like, uh, visual gallery and I know you're kind of like working on a current project. I wonder if you could talk more about your current project you're
Speaker 6 00:21:14 Working on. I guess the current project is Brenda Arts. I guess I can just talk about that. Uh, Brenda Arts is a interdisciplinary media company that has a, um, POC youth, like after school program built inside of it. Essentially, I'm working on a lot of different projects all at the same time and video game stuff with the art museum, trying to get an installation off the ground, uh, with the cool part of it is, um, that the kids that I work with have their art like infused into it. So I just laid the framework and then they plug in different sections of it so they have ownership of it. Um, like watching, I make, I've watched a lot. I'm, I was a dweeb. I was always, I've, I've been a, I've been a dork, so I just watched a lot of making of documentaries of just different things.
Speaker 6 00:22:13 Jurassic Park being one of them. But for any, any of those, it's just like, there is no people who looked like me on set at all. And historically I know that to be true. So I don't expect to be on, you know, like a multi-thousand person production in, in any capacity. But if I can make like, a small little like, video game for a, for like this, uh, tiny yellow Game boy, and then I can show the kids what I'm working on and then they can plug into it. Um, that's my version of having the, the kids on set. Like, that's all I've ever wanted to do. And, uh, I realized that just from where I was, uh, geographically or whatever, I kind of had to build it for myself. And then, uh, I just did that over the last couple of years. So I guess the, what I really like the direct correlation to what I was talking about before was Brenda Lab, which is the show that we did with the art museum.
Speaker 6 00:23:21 So essentially, like in a Virgil Ablo way, I'm really trying to make like the art museum accessible for anybody who wants to go. Cuz there's a lot of kids that I know that just haven't been there before mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because there's this stigma that it's like, not for them, but it's for everybody. It's just how you interface with it. So I try to break the barriers down and be silly in the, in the museum, but also talk about like, oh, this art can relate to you and like, you've probably made a quilt before. This is a quilt that's made out of circuit boards. Um, there's a long, you know, um, racialized history for a lot of different groups of quilt making and that brings comfort. But this, um, this piece here is, is hard and rigid, but it's also like handmade and stitched together. So there's just a lot of, um, intersections and all of these things, and everybody has intersections.
Speaker 6 00:24:18 They're intersectional. So if I can make it as simple, but as real as I can, and then if a child can get it, an adult can get it. And hopefully I can just make enough stuff to, uh, to, uh, reach as many people as I can. And hopefully they can shift their perspective and hopefully not feel like the art world is out of their grasp. Like, if you just like it, just do it. You know. Do, how do you, how do you, um, I have a couple questions for you. How do, how do you, um, grasp the, I mean, like how, how, where does the God, what, where was I going? Where was I going with that? My mind moves way too fast. I need to, um, I, I guess I can just hit you with the second question and then I'll try to form the second one. Um, as somebody who does art a lot, it is deeply ingrained to who you are. Um, how do you like rest and like cultivate curiosity, uh, instead of like, just keep keep making things, keep making things like networking, networking, networking, all that. How do you, how do you stand back and say like, no art for right now. Like, how do you take care of yourself essentially, is what I'm
Speaker 7 00:25:40 Trying to ask. Um, that's a, that's a good question and that's something I'm trying to figure out. Um, especially like here, like while I'm residency I've been trying to do a lot of rest. Um, I feel like I've been like making art and doing projects like nonstop for like, what feels like years. Um, so, and then I just like finished this like, project, like the day before I got here. Um, so I've definitely been like thinking about like, rest and like not trying to like pressure myself to like, produce too many, like results. I definitely like, have ideas for like, future projects or like my next project, but I think like, I'm not like in a rush to start it or I want to start it really intentionally. Um, and then, you know, sometimes like you try to like plan things and like life happens and I feel like I'm trying to like let myself be in life's like, hands currently.
Speaker 7 00:26:32 And I think, um, like somewhat intentionally, right? You go into residencies and like hang out with other artists, I feel like it's natural for like, sparks to start going off. Um, so I wasn't sure, but I think like that's been happening from like talking to like you talking to like other artists. It's been like helping me think about like my project or like my future project. Um, in addition to just like having this like space and time to rest. Um, but also just like hanging out with people. It's like one of my favorite ways to like unwind. But I also see that as like the studio where you can, sometimes you just like spitball or come up with like stupid ideas. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, that feels like a fun, like, kind of like creative process. Um, but yeah, like hanging out, going on adventures. I feel like having connections with people, um, can lead to like certain moments. Cuz sometimes I'll hear like the riders talking about their process and like, I'm like struggling with some writing stuff and then I hear like how they approach their things and I was like, oh wow, this, I know, to them it seems so like, that's like basic writing 1 0 1. But for me I was like, oh, that's what y'all do. I was like, that's to be, that's really helpful. <laugh>. Yeah.
Speaker 6 00:27:38 That's, it is just a, it's an incubator. Yeah. It's just a bunch of different people in one spot. Yeah. I, I feel that, I think it's, I think it's good being out here. I like, um, I'm a, I am, uh, pretty introverted. I might sound like I'm not, but I'm pretty introverted. But I do genuinely really enjoy talking to everybody. Everybody's super nice and chill. Um, I don't get out of, I don't really uh, bust outta my shell often, but I'm glad that I'm, I'm here. It's like adult summer camp. Really? Yeah. Um, we're literally in cabins. Yeah. So it's cool. Um, but yeah, that, that whole rest thing, once you have momentum you just want to keep attaining it and just keep it moving, but it's just not sustainable.
Speaker 7 00:28:24 Yeah. I think cuz there is like, for me at least, there's that fear. If I'm not like, constantly going like at 110 all the time, like, I'll, I'll like fall or it's like, maybe it's like running on water. The only way to like do something like that is to like keep a, a breakneck pace in the moment you like stop to think and you think you're gonna like, like crash down or something. But, um mm-hmm. <affirmative> that hasn't been the case and it's been, it's been really cool. And I'm like, you know, I think with plans you had these like plans, but then sometimes it's like, oh, maybe I need to just like be open to a new possibility is like, is inspiration really inspiration or is it like only whatever fits within my pre-described box versus being like, I'm gonna lie myself to be inspired even if it's something I didn't even like plan or takes me in a dif different direction than I thought I was gonna go in.
Speaker 6 00:29:12 Yeah. The much like your art and the fluidity of it. Like there can't be boxes just kind of has to be, uh, I don't think that's an American way of thinking though at all. It's just, uh, I've been doing a lot of research and just in a lot of things, but there's this game called Bo No Nazi ostomy, which is this Japanese PS one game. Um, and it's just about a kid on summer vacation and there's no real objective. You just kind of, you, if you wanna swing on a swing, set the whole game for like 16 hours, you can do that. And it just reminds it just in, in a very roundabout way. It's just like, I mean, I think both of us have just been going hard for a really long time and we've yielded results that we wanted. And like, there's a, there's always like this satisfaction of like finishing something.
Speaker 6 00:30:10 But, you know, for me personally, it was never like, once I finished something, it's like, okay, and what's like, what's the next thing I, I want to do it right now. But, um, thinking about that game is just like, I don't really allow myself to be often. And how do you, how do you wait? This is like figuring out like how, how do I do that? Uh, being out here is cool because things are slow. Being off of being the internet is slow, which is in, in my cabin is slow. Yeah. Which is not a dis Michelle, please do not, uh,
Speaker 7 00:30:46 Cut that part over. Yeah.
Speaker 6 00:30:47 Cut. Cut it. Cut it <laugh>. Um, but you know, it's always, there's just a and a hyper acceleration happening of everything all the time. So if you can step away from that, it feels a lot better. Your mind is clearer, um, if there's no cell service. So I'm glad that I've been able to do that. And just being able to like look at the ocean every day and see otters, you know, walking on the sand and whales and stuff like that is just cool. And I love boats personally. I like watching the boats sail by, so it's just, um, the self care of slowing down is hard for me. It always has been. I'm always on trying to be the onto the next thing as like a coping mechanism for a lot of, um, lack of control. Directors are not people who have, are okay with the universe happening.
Speaker 6 00:31:47 They're trying to control everything all the time. So I'm just trying to interrogate that and it's, you know, this is me in late 2022. I mean, hopefully by this time next year I'll be like a lot, I mean, I'm a marginally better at it than just being like, Hey, things are outta my control. Things come out the way that they come out. You can't control every anything. It's like out, it's, everything's outta your control. So the dichotomy of wanting to throw up my hands and the, like, the nature of me and what I do of like, being able to be like, um, these are things, how these things should go. It, it's just interesting to me for sure. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 7 00:32:32 Have you seen the, what is it? The Beyonce's like homecoming documentary?
Speaker 6 00:32:37 I've, I I've, I started it and then I got distracted and then I never went back to it, but I'm, I'm sure I'm gonna get like, people angry in the com. I don't know, are there comments for this? I don't know. They're,
Speaker 7 00:32:50 Uh, video. I know. I'm just saying cuz uh, you know, she's like a famous Virgo. So like a lot of the videos, like when they're like preparing for like, the live performance, it's just like her level of like perfection is like so high. Yeah. But she's like, all right, we need to do this as like you're, and then there's like one guy that was like, his note's off is like, all right, that's the second time you've been off. Like, what do we need to do to make sure you're not like off again? But it's just like, I feel like classic, um, Beyonce, like Virgo perfection, energy of like, it's like the fine tuning to where it gets perfect. Um, cause I think like that too, it's like, it, it feels, it's so subjective and unknown about like what perfection is within like our, or within your vision. Um, it becomes hard. And I think too, like not focus on like one detail versus like missing out on other points or something. Cause I know sometimes in like my art, I can like start focusing on one aspect and then I was like, start focus on this aspect so much. And I was like, oh, wait, what was like the, the goal for this whole thing? Am I still like focused on that goal? Or have I been distracted by this? Like, now this like small aspect which could like distract from the main goal or something.
Speaker 6 00:34:03 Do you have fun doing the art?
Speaker 7 00:34:05 Um, yeah. I love doing art. I love like the fun stuff. I hate all like, you know, the admin and the, the emailing and like how artists have to be their own lawyers, their own negotiators, their own promo people, their own like admin. Um, but I love like making things and sharing them with people, which I feel like is at the core of like, art. Um, so I love that. I love like sharing and I love making stuff and I love like being in community with people or being in conversation with people, um, through visual work, through like, you know, the ways we interrogate space or institutions or, or sculpture, painting or like video. Um, I think it's cool to like, feel like you're part of a community that's like thinking about these things in these ways. Um, and it kind of feels like a chess piece sometimes, or a chess game where you have like a friend that just like had in our show and you're like, oh, that's amazing.
Speaker 7 00:35:03 Then somebody else has like, in our show two months later and they're like, they feel like they're like, kind of like, I mean, yeah, they, they are in conversation with each other. Um, but it's cool to like exist that way. Like exist spatially in like conversation in that way. Um, so that definitely feels cool, but there's definitely aspects that are exhausting. Um, but I think to your point too, like of like finishing one thing and just jumping onto the next thing, like, I'm definitely like that. And I've really trying and been like, yo, I need to like celebrate. Sometimes you need to celebrate the thing you just finished and I'll be able to like look back at it. And I think that's something I've, I've been bad at is like, oh yeah, like, you know, way to go like, be proud of yourself. Um, versus like, all right, the next day I'm already like in preliminary, preliminary plants for like the next project or something. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah.
Speaker 6 00:35:57 If, if feel that <laugh>, you know, having, having fun doing is is just, it's, I mean it's, I like when it's done and I like the pre-pro of things or like the begin, like before pre-pro can even start, like the conceptualizing, it's just like work, you know? Um, being here, having a studio, I didn't realize having a studio would be this nice. Because us, I work from home mostly, so I wake up and work and go to bed in the same location and it just was not good for my mental health at all. So I definitely need to figure out a way to separate work me and at home me. And, uh, I feel like this was a very good experiment in that. Cause I don't feel nearly as, I, I mean, I'm never gonna be a chill guy. <laugh>, <laugh>. I'm never gonna be a chill guy, but I'm not as, like, the computer that I work on at home is like the one that I do works up and play Halo on.
Speaker 6 00:37:03 And, you know, I can't, there needs to be a distinction between like, it's very easy to be like, oh yeah, I'm gonna stop doing things at five. But like, when it's your art practice and you're very stoked on it, you know, five turns into nine, nine turns into one, and then you're like, oh, okay, I have to go to bed now. And then it's the same cycle over again. So. Yep. Um, separation is good. Uh, being able to touch grass is good. <laugh>, there's a lot of grass here. Yeah, there's a lot of water too. Yeah. Um, not gonna swim in it. <laugh> some people doing that. I was like, wow. Some
Speaker 7 00:37:39 People in the residency are saying they're gonna take a dip before it's over.
Speaker 6 00:37:42 Are they gonna do the poor bear plunge?
Speaker 7 00:37:44 Yeah, I think so. I think they're gonna pull.
Speaker 6 00:37:46 Well, lemme know.
Speaker 7 00:37:47 I'll be there submerge.
Speaker 6 00:37:49 Uh, I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll try it. <laugh>. I love, I love swimming. I was, um, when I was like, I guess when I was a toddler, anytime I would see water, I would just jump in. I couldn't swim, but, you know, I, I went for it. Yeah. Made me resilient. Made me resilient. Maybe that's why I joined the swim team or whatever. That was fun.
Speaker 7 00:38:15 Um, well, you got something, you got those cancer placements.
Speaker 6 00:38:17 Yeah, I guess. I guess so. I guess so. I guess I'm a little crab guy. Yeah. I am short. I am short. I like, um, that, that's, that's a, I like, I like, um, this residency because everybody is as tall as me. <laugh>. Have you noticed that? It's like everybody's about the same high. It's
Speaker 7 00:38:38 Cool. Yeah. I think that was like one of the requirements
Speaker 6 00:38:41 <laugh>, uh, under under six one. Yeah. You know, and I feel, I feel good. I'm not, um, I don't have to have the Napoleonic <laugh>, you know? It's, it's, it's very, it's cheerful. It's playful. Yeah. Um, <laugh> didn't, nobody's towering above me looking down. I don't have to look up to somebody. I disrespect <laugh>, you know? That's how I was for too long.
Speaker 7 00:39:03 Yeah. So <laugh>, I hadn't even thought about that, but yeah, I get
Speaker 6 00:39:06 That. It was just an
Speaker 7 00:39:08 Opposite. It no tall people observation. It's just
Speaker 6 00:39:10 Like, oh, that's cute. I like this. I like this. Yeah. Um, yeah. It's good. It's good. No ghosts.
Speaker 7 00:39:17 No ghosts. Yeah. No ghosts
Speaker 6 00:39:18 Yet. No ghosts yet.
Speaker 7 00:39:19 I did have something happen in my cabin last night. That was the only thing that felt like it could have been ghosty. Um, I like woke up in the middle of the night and, um, I was like drinking some water or something and then I, like, I laid back down and then it sounded like somebody was just like, running through the house, but like from one end of the house to through to like the other end. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And it felt like it, like it went right by me. Like, I didn't feel like anything, but like, the floorboards were like, boom, boom, boom. And I was like, wow. I was like, is that somebody outside or is that like an animal, like on the roof? But it felt like, obviously I didn't see anything, but it felt like something like ran through the house. But it could have been like, I don't know if somebody was like outside and it just like made the floors creek or Yeah. What?
Speaker 6 00:40:05 But you never know.
Speaker 7 00:40:06 Like, that's weird. I was like, I'm not gonna think about it too much. I was like, they go back through
Speaker 6 00:40:10 This <laugh>, it's just, it's just a camp experience, you know? It's just a Centrum experience. Yeah.
Speaker 7 00:40:15 And then nothing else happened. And that was like the one time I had heard something, but maybe this of the house. I,
Speaker 6 00:40:20 I thought, um, I thought, I thought somebody was trying to get into my studio from the outside. But it was just a nice, um, security man, Gary. He was just checking the doors, making sure everything was safe. I didn't see, I saw the doors like jiggling. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and moving. And I was like, huh. I, I was just like, oh, I guess this is how it starts. <laugh>. I didn't even, I didn't even react really. I didn't even try to move. I'm just like, no, I'm just gonna let it happen. If it, if something's coming in here, uh, what am I supposed to do?
Speaker 7 00:40:52 I can get the camera rolling. Yeah.
Speaker 6 00:40:54 I'm gonna, yeah, I'm gonna put on, I'm gonna start my Instagram live and have people, uh, see me like get taken up into the sky or whatever.
Speaker 7 00:41:03 <laugh>. I'm in the studio.
Speaker 6 00:41:04 <laugh>. I'm in the <laugh>. I'm, I'm, I'm reporting live from the studio. All, all hell was broken loose. You know, the
Speaker 7 00:41:12 Door, the knobs jiggling.
Speaker 6 00:41:13 The, the doorknobs are jiggling. Yeah. Uh, somebody's trying to get in from the outside. <laugh>, but no, it's just Gary. Gary's cool.
Speaker 7 00:41:20 Just Gary,
Speaker 6 00:41:22 Um, chooses
Speaker 7 00:41:24 Gary. I said just Gary. Just
Speaker 6 00:41:25 Gary. Just Gary <laugh>. Um, hopefully he's not a ft of my imagination. I don't think so.
Speaker 7 00:41:31 You, you uh, asked Michelle, I was like, was like, no, there's no Gary that works here.
Speaker 6 00:41:34 <laugh>. Nah, nah, nah. Gary hasn't worked here for
Speaker 7 00:41:37 Years. Yeah. Gary died 10 years ago.
Speaker 6 00:41:39 <laugh>. I'd be like, well, I'm leaving <laugh>.
Speaker 7 00:41:43 I'm, that's it for me.
Speaker 6 00:41:45 Uh, I'm well I I'll see y'all later. I don't, I don't know what to do here. I'm out. You can keep your, keep your piano room. I'm, I'm out. See y'all later. No sir.
Speaker 7 00:41:58 What's
Speaker 6 00:41:59 Up? Tell George Thank you. I'm out. I'm
Speaker 7 00:42:02 Leaving. Oh, that's my, that's my hard boundary. That's
Speaker 6 00:42:04 My hard <laugh>. That's uh, uh, it is a no for me.
Speaker 7 00:42:07 Like, <laugh>.
Speaker 6 00:42:09 That's, that's it. Um,
Speaker 7 00:42:11 You know that there's the what? The I f s or I, yeah. I f f S thing that's happening right now here? No. Um, the like international fiber and fungus. Oh yeah. Supposed Did
Speaker 6 00:42:25 You go to
Speaker 7 00:42:25 The, did you go to that? I didn't go to any of it, but the other night I was like going to school and, um, I was like trying to get in through like one of the slide doors, which usually I can get into cuz they're just like unlocked or I know the one that's unlocked. Um, but then it was like locked and that's weird. But then I saw that the lights were on and I just like kept trying to get in and I like, there's this like old white lady that was in there, like, doing some work. I think I just like scared the shit out of her <laugh>. I was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. No, this door is unlocked. Yeah.
Speaker 6 00:42:51 You probably, you probably, you probably did, to be
Speaker 7 00:42:54 Honest. It's like, yeah. Goofy looking old white lady. She
Speaker 6 00:42:57 <laugh>.
Speaker 7 00:42:57 You gave her a fright.
Speaker 6 00:42:59 <laugh>. It is October. Yeah.
Speaker 7 00:43:01 You know, it
Speaker 6 00:43:02 Is spooky season. Spooky. It is spooky season. So, um, yeah, I don't, it's, this is, it's a unique environment because there is like residencies that are, you're just out there, you're isolated. But this one is, it's cozy because there's people walking around. There's, um, things happening outside of who you know here. Yeah. And I, I like that. Um, everybody's quiet. Nobody's, there's no skirmishes. Yeah. Not, not that I expected anybody to start fighting out here, but yeah. I guess all there, every, everybody goes to bed at like six I'm, and sometimes, sometimes I don't want to eat the pasta that I made, like three days ago at nine at night, it was just like, I really want dominoes right now,
Speaker 7 00:43:47 But this
Speaker 6 00:43:48 Everything is closed at like 6:00 PM I'm like, well, all right. Another sandwich. <laugh>, I guess
Speaker 7 00:43:55 That has been, I feel like a, I feel like a baby for this, but that has been one of my initial struggles was like, oh, I can't get food delivered. I was like, I can't Postmates, <laugh> <laugh>.
Speaker 6 00:44:07 When am I supposed to? No, I'm gonna store <laugh>.
Speaker 7 00:44:10 I was like, yeah, I guess I have to cook some food. It's like, fuck.
Speaker 6 00:44:14 All right, let's get the spices out. You know? Yeah. They have really nice pots and pans. I was just like, I felt like I, when I walked in, I felt like a celebrity cuz there was like, um, you know, ornately uh, packaged soap on the
Speaker 7 00:44:28 Beds. Like, wow. That's
Speaker 6 00:44:29 How I set up. Wow. I feel special.
Speaker 7 00:44:31 <laugh>.
Speaker 6 00:44:33 And I'm not Damian a host, but you're treating me real nice, you
Speaker 7 00:44:37 Know? Yeah. Hell yeah.
Speaker 6 00:44:39 Who's, who's your, uh, in any medium? Who's your favorite artist?
Speaker 7 00:44:44 Um, I don't know if I would have a single favorite. I definitely have like, a variety of people I'm looking at. Maybe some people I'm like currently looking at. Um, there's this photographer, Paul, I always forget his last name. Paul. Them se Bay. Um, he's like a portrait photographer. So I'm like, I, I've considered like the work. I do portrait stuff a lot for like, my performance stuff. So I feel, but I feel like I've been looking at a lot of like, portrait photographers and like self-portrait photographers and really into the whole like, complicating the portrait, um, showing the apparatus. You know, it's like a lot of like photos where you're like through a mirror and you just see the, the camera in the tripod. And then there's like maybe a person reflected in the background or, um, you see the photographer is in the photo too.
Speaker 7 00:45:33 Like, those kind of like, for me that's like a fourth wall breaking kind of like, aspect that I'm like really appreciated about. Like performance art or the way that these like portraits exist. Um, performance artists. Uh, yeah, I saw some performances recently in September and I'm trying to remember which ones I liked. Um, Takahiro Yamamoto, um, is a performance artist in Portland. Um, and he's really cool. Um, he did a really cool performance recently that I like. Um, Keon Gaskin's also from Portland. And he's like his performance artist. Super amazing. Um, that I'm always, I always like what of my big influences? Just like rap music videos. So I'm always watching like So
Speaker 6 00:46:16 You're like a Hype Williams fan?
Speaker 7 00:46:18 Um, yeah, I would say I, I like Belly. Um, yeah. And like his, his like music videos. Um, but I'm still, yeah, like I'll watch like I Spice Munch. Um,
Speaker 6 00:46:32 But I mean, it's a good song. It's a good song, but I like You're an Ice Spice enthusiast too, huh? Okay, cool. <laugh> Cool. I get you. Um,
Speaker 7 00:46:40 It's just cause I like the, I think too when I, sometimes when I do my video art, I like, I, I think I try to time it in like a music video kind of timeframe, like three to four minutes. Or even maybe like a nine minute music video. Well, they'll like fall in line. They used to do those intro like Michael Jackson or something. Um, so I definitely feel like music videos are definitely like structurally, conceptually, visually sonically an influence for me. Um, especially like a form of like the way they use that timeframe to tell stories. I think it's cool.
Speaker 6 00:47:13 I think, I think, I mean music videos as an org form have definitely, I was gonna say got worse, but they just changed. I mean like, I spice, I Spice Munch. I like the shot where she's on the basketball hoop. Um, how did they get her up there? Did they throw her like, I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 7 00:47:31 There's a ladder just out of, out of frame <laugh> uh,
Speaker 6 00:47:34 Out, out of reach. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 7 00:47:37 Um, cuz even like, some of the ones that I still love are some of the simplest ones. Like the old Chief Keefe where he is like under house arrest and it's Justin, his like living room. That's,
Speaker 6 00:47:46 That's just, yeah, that's just Afrofuturism.
Speaker 7 00:47:48 Yeah. It's like just 10 dudes in the living room with
Speaker 6 00:47:51 The name 10 there. I mean, not only like watching, um, Casablanca beats thinking about that. It's just like, I have a lot to say about this one actually. Yeah. So you got me, you got me thinking like, just, it's just so wild that a 16 year old kid was on house arrest and he actually accidentally made a whole video visual language that spread everywhere and it's still being used today. Yeah. By people who might have never have met him, um, at all or collaborated with him, but like, they make videos like that in London and Lagos. Um, I just think that's just interesting. I feel like the decentralization of music is interesting, like, as a young lean fan. Like it's so abstracted from you,
Speaker 7 00:48:47 Like Young Lean.
Speaker 6 00:48:47 Yeah. Like yeah,
Speaker 7 00:48:49 It's a,
Speaker 6 00:48:50 It's like, it started off as it started off as that, but now and like, like, um, bootleg Memphis, but then it turned into something different from, you know, hanging out with I guess Dean Blunt who was, who's from the uk but listens to like Western Rock from the sixties. Like it's in, it's just interesting how the internet works, um, and how anybody for better or worse can get access to it. But yeah, I love music videos. I love hype. I've been looking at a lot of Hype Williams videos for the game. I want to be the Hype Williams of video games. There's not a lot of black vid, uh, video game creators. But if I can bring style and elegance to that medium, uh, I'll try to do it. Yeah. Hell yeah. So that's, that's the, that's the goal I wanna make. Um, classy Game. I'm listening. I'm listening to, uh, intelligent dance music cuz I'm putting
Speaker 7 00:49:52 It together.
Speaker 6 00:49:53 So, you know, I love Afix Twin. I'm one of the afix twin of, uh, Stan, you know, Richard D. James or whatever. But yeah, music videos are great. I feel like, I hate saying it, but Cole Bennett just is really good. Like, he made music videos on an event again, but also he had a great eye for young ta that got him to where he needs to be. He also created a visual language that is being used everywhere. I think that's interesting. Um, music videos are just good. That's all that I watch. Really good. What's your, like, do you have one that really stands? I know, I know my like top five,
Speaker 7 00:50:34 Like some music videos I've loved forever. Yeah. Um, there's a few different ones I like for a few different reasons for sure. I definitely have like my YouTube playlists. Um, but some are like so different than each other. One that comes off the top of my head is, um, there's this version of Adele, someone like you where it's like live in her house. Um, so it's not like the regular official music video one. Um, but she's like in her house and like there's somebody who's like recording her and she's like smoking a cigarette and she has this like, little like, monologue before the song starts. So like you slowly hear the piano come in as she's like talking and she's like, you know, the song someone's like you is about like, you know, you're 40 and then you run into your ex and, and then they're married and they have a baby and um, you know, and she's like, then I'm still single. And then she's like, well I have her find somebody. And then just this like little like monologue thing and then she like goes into the song and I feel like I love that song, but like, without hearing that little monologue or sing the music videos, like it hits so much differently when I see that video and hear that intro. Um, I also like, uh, what's the music video I really love? Um, I love there's uh, aap, Rocky Schoolboy Q Hands on the Not Hands On the Wheel, um, brand new guys, um,
Speaker 6 00:51:51 The yeah. Where they're in, uh, New York and LA
Speaker 7 00:51:54 Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 6 00:51:55 Upside Down.
Speaker 7 00:51:55 Yeah. Yeah. That
Speaker 6 00:51:56 One with that vape jacket with ASAP Rocket. Mm-hmm <affirmative> the vape jacket. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I remember that when that came out. That was a good era for mixed. That was like the last truly good mixtape era cuz it's just the centralized now
Speaker 7 00:52:09 And then, I mean now I'm all these like are running back. I love some of the old like, um, big timers, uh, where they're just like in Lamborghini, like in baby oil, in the parking lot, just like spinning out mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, shit like that. Yeah.
Speaker 6 00:52:24 Uh, uh, juvenile ha <affirmative>. That's a good, that's a good one. Those are very, those are shot very well.
Speaker 7 00:52:30 Yeah. The juvenile one. Uh, yeah, juvenile tie, uh,
Speaker 6 00:52:35 The, um, wow. Hands on. No, no brand new guy. The Earl Sweatshirt, brand new guy, remixes. That one's crazy. Never released it. Um, like the, the Cdq version of it, which makes me sad, but maybe one day it's in the vault somewhere.
Speaker 7 00:52:53 Sure. Do you know, um, it's another like black hippie or TD one, but say, what's up J Rock?
Speaker 6 00:52:59 Is that, is that the one where they're at the, like the construction site?
Speaker 7 00:53:02 Yeah. They're like playing with a camera for a while before the thought starts. So I love that one too.
Speaker 6 00:53:05 That was, um, that was, it was just a different time. None of them were famous yet. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> And as, as somebody who loves Kendrick's new visual as like aesthetic, it's very, uh, PG Lang is probably the best people making music videos out right now for sure. But I just like the, like the rawness of just four guys, four friends hanging out in Chinatown in LA was just, it was fun, but it's just not gonna go back to that. That's why I like Odd future too. Like this is the same, this is the same thing. Early odd future now they're all famous. Yeah. And one of them's Frank Ocean. So
Speaker 7 00:53:45 <laugh> and I think with that say what's up video? Like to, like some of the things you were saying earlier, it felt accessible in a way that feels like I could do this. Like this like is a me video that I really like, but it felt like
Speaker 6 00:53:58 They're like me. Yeah.
Speaker 7 00:53:59 Yeah. It felt like this is something I could make or this's something like me and my friends could make. Um, so I definitely felt that. And then even like adhd, like old Kendrick, like I love adhd, um, and I don't, yeah sometimes like I get, you know, you start having more money and more resources so you can start like doing like wilder shit and like new music videos. But sometimes like the message can be like delivered just like people in a room or whatever, you know.
Speaker 6 00:54:21 But the, the Claro video, um, Claire's, she's like a daughter of a cook executive, but she made a song off of a laptop and it just resonates with people cuz it's like she's just like me For real. I feel like much like the, it's not the sound much like stand by me <laugh> You, you, you make the best art with your friends when you're 12. Um, because it's just raw. It's just raw. The the ideas from then are just like, it's just fun and it's not, it's serious but it's not serious. It's just you figuring things out and it's just a way of being, it doesn't have to be super serious all the time. And I don't, and I'm not, I was talking to a friend about this recently, like art is work, but also art more so should just be play. And I think a lot of people forget that.
Speaker 7 00:55:20 Yeah. Oh yeah.
Speaker 6 00:55:22 People forget that they should have childlike wonderment as an adult.
Speaker 7 00:55:26 Definitely. I think that's the best part. Like, don't ever lose the, the wonder. And I think that's why it's so important to like, have new experiences, meet new people, try new things. Cuz that's like where the childlike wonder can like be maintained. Um, don't, don't get comfortable. Don't get too comfortable.
Speaker 6 00:55:42 Don't get too comfortable. I
Speaker 7 00:55:44 Feel like don't just be the same thing every day. Yeah.
Speaker 6 00:55:46 It's like routine is, routine is is always good. Um, but you know, you kind of have to get outside of your comfort zone and mm-hmm. <affirmative> do whatever, um, in order for it to truly be worth living for sure. Um, sure. There's another, there's another point I was gonna make, but I forgot what it was. Sure. Again, my mind moves too fast. <laugh>,
Speaker 7 00:56:10 Should we do some, uh, parting words?
Speaker 6 00:56:14 So, um, yeah, I mean, you you should go, you should go first. I don't know how, I don't want, uh, was did you want me to ask you a question?
Speaker 7 00:56:24 Um, no, I thought we could just like wrap it up, but I can go first. Um, yeah, go ahead. Yeah. Thank, thank you Spencer. Thanks for chatting with me. Um, thanks. Thanks to Syrum Michelle. Um, I hope you have a good rest of your trip.
Speaker 6 00:56:38 Where, where can people find you? Oh
Speaker 7 00:56:40 Yeah. Uh, find
[email protected]. Um, Instagram at salsa T H U L S A underscore moon. Um, I have a show open, currently sensitive content at Paragon Gallery. Um, it's up until November 19th. Check that out. Portland, Oregon. Um, yeah, I'm having a great time. I appreciate all the art, all the people and um, yeah, it's been nice chatting.
Speaker 6 00:57:05 Yeah. For, uh, yeah, thanks for having me out. I really appreciate you, uh, talking with you for the last hour. We've been going for a minute. I, I was stressed, like I was gonna be like, uh, seize up and just <laugh> talk the whole time out of fear. <laugh>. Yeah. Uh, but nah, I think we had a good back and forth, you know, a good, uh, uh, tennis wa was it rally? No Tennis Um,
Speaker 7 00:57:28 I don't know. Sets.
Speaker 6 00:57:29 Yeah. No, it's, uh, rounds. I was gonna say vault. It's not, I'm not a sports guy. Yeah. I don't, I'm not a sports guy like that. <laugh>. But yeah, people wanna,
Speaker 7 00:57:39 Yeah, they're going crazy in the comments right now. Yeah. People
Speaker 6 00:57:41 Are going in the crazy trying to, uh, you, you watched Serena walk out of the court. You should know whether you know what it is. Um, but yeah, if my name is Spencer, thanks for listening to me ramble. Hopefully some of it made sense. Uh, if you want to learn more about Brenda Artz and all the various projects we're doing, or want to get inspired and make your own projects, you can go to www.brendaarts.org. Um, my Instagram handle is, uh, lone saucer boy. And yeah, just remember, art is for everybody. And, and no matter who you are, you, you can, uh, you can make whatever you want. There's no genres that are explicitly for a group of people. Everybody can do anything. And, uh, yeah, just have fun too. And with your friends, it, it gets, there's, you know, we live in a world where things are extremely serious all the time, but in order to combat that, you have to have some kind of like, silly solution. Sometimes the silliest solutions are the ones that work.
Speaker 7 00:58:58 Hell yeah. Peace shall
Speaker 6 00:58:59 Peace <laugh>,
Speaker 8 00:59:02 Thank you for joining us today. This podcast was recorded and edited by staff at Centrum. Music is by tape or dark, and Cover Art is by Leon Finley, both alums of centrums Residency program. If you've enjoyed this series, please check out our archive of Artist Conversations and other podcasts available wherever you listen. Leave us a review and share with a friend that helps support and head over to centrum.org to learn about our programs, become a participant, or donate. We are grateful to have you in our creative community and look forward to bringing you more conversations from artists and creatives.
