Speaker 0 00:00:01 Welcome to this Centrum podcast. For more podcasts or to join Centrum programs Building Creativity in Community, visit
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Speaker 3 00:00:25 I'm Michelle Haywood, and this is On Air, a podcast focusing on conversations with artists and creatives. From Centrums residency community. I am broadcasting to you from the lands and waters of the coast, Salish people in a place known as Katai to the squall on people, and today known as Port Towns in Washington. This podcast is focused on bringing artists together in community to explore the ways that place, process, and the personal intersect. We dive into the many ways that artists are responding to the current times affecting change and finding sustenance during health, climate, and social crisis. Join us and take an hour to be in residence and unpack your own relationships to creativity, time and place. Thank you for being here, and enjoy this episode.
Speaker 3 00:01:21 Hi, I'm happy to be back with you in bringing another episode from our 2022 Emerging Artists and Writers program. This is one of five conversations that highlight the thoughts and stories of 10 creative people who received stipends, housing, and studio spaces for the month of October here at Centrum. They were encouraged to take this time to rest, recover, and tend to all the things that are necessary for creative processes to take place. As you may already know, we ask the residents to pair up among themselves and interview each other. This format seeks to capture the essence of what happens during a residency where individuals have lots of solo time, but also chances to connect with each other and share surprising details about their lives and pursuits unfettered by a formal interviewer or agenda. In each of these podcasts, I'm continually fascinated by how perfectly residents tend to pair up and find common themes and overlaps in their work, such as the case. Once again with Christie Krug and Alyssa gra, whose respective careers in writing, memoir and coaching yields a generous conversation full of juicy advice and heart. You'll find kinship, mentorship and will be transported by their rich words. Slow down and take some time to relish this one.
Speaker 6 00:02:47 So I guess we'll just start by introducing ourselves and, um, I'm Alyssa Grave here with Christie Krug, and we're super excited to be talking to you today. We're talking to each other and letting you eave drop on us today in a sort of like creeper Lee <laugh>. Okay, well that's not a very, uh, professional thing to say. Um, we're super excited to be talking to you today, and we'll just start by introducing ourselves. So my name is Alyssa Gra and I'm a writer and cartoonist, and my first book is coming out next year. It's called Floppy Tales of a Genetic Freak of Nature at the End of the World, and it's a memoir about kind of the emotional landscape of living with chronic illness and disability. And that's coming out in May of next year with Red Hen Press. And I'm also an editor and I work as a writing coach, and I specialize in working with peop with writers who have chronic illness and disability who are currently working on a, on a memoir manuscript or who are interested in exploring the process of writing memoir. And let's see, what else. I, I live in Astoria, Oregon with my partner and my two cats <laugh>.
Speaker 6 00:04:10 Lovely. Very nice. Um, and I am Christy Krug and I am a poet and a presenter, a creative facilitator and a writing coach, and a yoga teacher and an outdoor enthusiast. And I write memoir non-fiction, which is often for writers by the way, and creative, non-fiction as well as literary and speculative fiction. I love to write in wild and beautiful places. I lead nature yoga and writing retreats on the Oregon coast. And, uh, I also live on the Oregon coast, so we were immediately delighted to find that out about each other. Yeah, yeah. Different little corners, very different corners. And people don't realize, they're like, oh, you guys must be neighbors <laugh>. Um, but our towns are about four and a half hours apart. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the Oregon coast is a big coast. Yeah. And that, that highway 1 0 1 is not a straight line. There's a lot of meandering that happens.
Speaker 6 00:05:18 Very, very much so. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, um, fantastic. Well, it's just a delightful getting to know Alyssa. I just feel so lucky to be a co-resident with you, Alyssa, and also a neighbor for the moment. Um, and one of the things I'm wondering is, as we kind of absorb our experience and reflect on the past two weeks so far, what actually drew you to apply for this residency? Um, at the start, the emerging writing residency for Centrum? Hmm mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So one of my primary reasons for applying to residencies like this is I love the opportunity of getting to meet other writers and artists. Um, I mean, I think that they're just so fascinating and we always have amazing conversations. And for me, um, as a person with a disability, a lot of the things that I used to do to meet writers, like, um, going to a zine fair or something and sharing my comics or doing an intensive day long workshop, these things aren't so accessible to me anymore.
Speaker 6 00:06:39 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So like, I need to have, I need to lie down every couple hours to reset my autonomic nervous system. So like, but at a, at a writing residency, it's very, we're an artist residency. It's very, you, there's a lot of social interaction, but it's very well paced. You know, we have intensive moments and we have a couple days of working on our own things and then we come back together mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I just, I find that flow so conducive to like, making intimate relationships and friendships and, and also like staying safe within my physical limitations. So yeah, the social thing is a big, is a big component. And, and I, so one of my big challenges right now, one of the things I've been thinking about a lot is I've got this book coming out next year, and book promotion is a really, it's a little bit of an over overwhelming thing in my brain right now because there's just a lot to do, a lot of publish a lot of things that publishers encourage you to do to get the word out about your book and connect with readers.
Speaker 6 00:07:41 And, um, all the writing, many of the writing friends that I talk to who are able-bodied become overwhelmed at that time in their lives when they're promoting a book. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, especially if it's a first book and they're not quite sure what they're doing when they're going into it. So I'm really, I've been thinking so much about how am I gonna do this next year in May in a way that's going to, um, keep me alive <laugh>, and like just not lead to burnout. So the ch so that's the challenge that I'm working towards. Right. And I was, so, I was hoping for this residency, one of the things publishers like encouraged me to do, or writers in general to do is to write essays or pieces that they can send out, you know, disperse into the internet, um, to kind of raise awareness for their book and like, and, and, and garner interest.
Speaker 6 00:08:33 So my thought is the, for this month was to, if I could just focus on writing essays and pieces that I can publish in various places mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I sort of maybe not completely cross that off my list, but get a big chunk of that work done. So next year when I'm doing other sorts of things, I am, you know, I'm pacing myself a lot mm-hmm. <affirmative> better and I've got, you know, at least part of it off, off the list. And, um, you know, cuz book promotion is not the full-time job. There's still like the the day job Yes. And the creative work, and it's like that, even just the day-to-day, sometimes it's a struggle for me to manage energy-wise, so mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's just like, you know, how to function well in a system. Um, the publishing world, it's not necessarily set up, um, for disability or really for, for, you know, like a measured <laugh> mm-hmm. <affirmative>
Speaker 6 00:09:26 Like pacing for anyone. Yes. Um, so, so that's where I'm at. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. That's brilliant. Those are really good strategies. I hope so. Yeah. And so, um, with the essays, or maybe even beyond the essays, what are you exploring in your work right now? So, most of the essays, so they are touching on themes in, in my book that's coming out. So they're focusing on disability and chronic illness in some way. So I've been working on one that's about my perennial fascination of the connections between, um, limitations and creativity. Hmm. Um, so there's very big and sort of obvious connections in the creative process when there are design constraints on something that you're working on or any sort of limitations that you have to work within, tends to be very conducive to like, generating all kinds of ideas and just like really opening a door, like a portal and to just like this world of, of fascinating things.
Speaker 6 00:10:33 You know, like in, in a writing workshop, for example, if I'm telling a group of students, um, write me a story about your life, a a large portion of them are probably going to stare at me blankly Oh, for sure. <laugh> and say, I don't know what, I don't have anything. I can't think of any, you know, like, it's not, all the options in the world are not a useful starting place for the creative process. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, usually so, but if you tell a group of students, like, I want you to write me a story either about your life or about a character in which say someone is mad at them for a reason that they don't think is justified. Mm. And, you know, include in the story a red shoe or something like these are very specific mm-hmm. <affirmative> emotional scenes or realities that can then spark so many ideas mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Speaker 6 00:11:24 So I'm, I'm continually fascinated by that. And I think a lot about it as applied to chronic illness and disability because you do have more limitations on your physical capacity and what you can do in a day sometimes mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that can be really useful to prioritizing Yes. What's important to you and focusing. And just like some, I mean, sometimes I feel like I get more done than I might have done mm-hmm. As an able-bodied person because, you know, I wouldn't be, I I would've been frittering away my energy doing a million things makes, makes so much sense to me. I love that because one of the most productive times in my writing life was when I had a three month old baby mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and you would never think that that was possible, you know? Um, but my oldest, you know, would, would just, I would just hold her and I'd be nursing her and I'd be tapping away on the keyboard.
Speaker 6 00:12:25 Not every time, but sometimes. And then I knew, you know, when she was napping, it was like, who cares about the mess in the house? There's, you know, dishes, there's this and that, but, you know, I, there's only a few things that are really gonna matter to me right now, so I'm gonna write, that's one of the few things. So I love what you're saying because I think whenever you're in a situation where you are forced to decide what's really important right now mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and, and it ended up being so productive and it, I've been forever trying to recapture that <laugh>, but I don't, I don't, you know, I'm not gonna have a baby anytime, but, uh, yeah, yeah. Totally. And like, you know, like one of the challenges that I, that I kind of reach there is, you know, I'm not trying to say that, you know, people who have these very real limitations are like somehow super heroic in their Mm.
Speaker 6 00:13:25 Like ability to like, get things done. You know, like, I don't want it to make it, I don't wanna make it be like a mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I just, you know, that I'm encouraging productivity as the only, you know, thing that makes a life value book valuable, because that's not what I'm saying. But, but yeah, there's definitely something there that like mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the less energy you have, the more stuff you can Yeah. Prioritize <laugh>. Wow. And that's gonna be in maybe some of the essays that we'll be reading, um, um, or in, in my book. You mean, um, the essays that maybe as you're writing about the book and about the process. Yeah. So that's one of the ones mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and that is very much tied to themes in the book as well. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, let's see, I'm also working on another essay that's about disability and disability in the workplace in kind of, and how our conceptions of professionalism have changed, particularly since the pandemic with so many people working from home.
Speaker 6 00:14:31 So I'm someone who has worked from home, almost all of my, um, adult working life mm-hmm. <affirmative>, so since 2005 when I graduated, um, from college. And so from my perspective as someone who had to work from home, because I couldn't necessarily do a nine to five out of the house. Right. Um, from, from my perspective, the pandemic opened up the doors Mm. Of career opportunities, you know, I didn't necessarily have to be a freelancer, although like I do really enjoy mm-hmm. <affirmative> what I'm doing now. Um, and I think it's been true for a lot of people with disabilities. Like they are, they now have access to jobs they wouldn't have had access to. And, and so the pandemic sort of fundamentally kind of put them on an even nice playing field with able-bodied employees mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that's been amazing. And you know, there's this report that I read recently that said that companies that, um, facilitate or provide access to disabled employees are actually, um, have the highest revenue growth and are the most creative.
Speaker 6 00:15:34 Wow. And, gosh, I can't remember all the statistics, but just that like, da disabled employees tend to be very creative because we do sort of wake up in the morning and we're like, this is what I have to work with mm-hmm. <affirmative>, how do I figure this out? You know, like creative problem solving becomes a space mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, becomes kind of just the default mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, you know, so now we're in a really interesting cultural moment where some people are still working from home. There's a lot of calls, um, to go back to normal, back to the office mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that is kind of a scary place for some people who have just been able to, um, um, access that world. Yeah. But I mean, I do think like how we conceptualize pro professionalism is changing a little bit. Like we know it's not necessarily the outfits, you know, you can be very professional person in your fuzzy rabbit slippers or whatever your pajamas are, you know, it's, is like, you know, a work shirt on top.
Speaker 6 00:16:30 Um, you know, it's not really about the outfits or the commute, but it's about the behaviors. You know, like how do we mm-hmm. <affirmative>, so how do we integrate that, that the professional behaviors that can be anywhere and from very, you know, with varying, like, no matter your disability, you can still be professional, it's just not, maybe not gonna look the way that it used to look in the offices. Yeah. So that's generally, um, the threads, the threads that I'm exploring right now. Hmm. That's fantastic. And I know that floppy is a memoir mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, um, I'm, so I'm curious why are you drawn to writing memoir more? Oh, gosh. I, I love this question and I have so much to say about it, <laugh>, so thank you for asking. Um, I think that a lot of people are drawn to writing memoir when there's something in their story that they need to reclaim, like some sort of disempowerment, some sort of marginalization that they need to process.
Speaker 6 00:17:39 And it can be a very empowering process in that you really have to be intentional about choosing which narratives you're going to accept, which ar which narratives you're going to reject mm-hmm. <affirmative> in, you know, in retelling your story and, and working it. And, you know, for me that was a lot of internalized ableism that was, you know, I was diagnosed with my condition when I was a child. Mm. But, so I was lucky in that respect mm-hmm. <affirmative>, cause many people with Eller Sandlos syndrome don't get that until later in their life. But then I still internalized a lot of, um, dismissiveness around what my body needed, you know, so I would be pushing myself and crashing and landing in the hospital. Wow. And just like not listening to myself and doing everything that I could to not be too sensitive, to not be too much, yes.
Speaker 6 00:18:33 To not ask for anything special mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, um, so of course like I needed to look at that. And there came a point in my type, in my life when I had no more choice, you know, like mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, I was no longer able to function like I needed to fundamentally change how I was living. Wow. Um, so I mean, I started writing memoir, you know, a few years into that time. And it started be, started with essays kind of morphed into more of novelistic, um, scene based, um, work. But I mean, what I think is really important about memoir is it's not, you know, it's not just about me as an individual, it's not just about self-awareness. I mean, of course. Ooh, that's good. Yeah. I mean, it's, I mean, obviously it's required that you have self-awareness mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but I think memoir's power really lands in or grows from its ability, like, how do I say this?
Speaker 6 00:19:28 Like, you have to have an expansive self-awareness. It's not only yourself, um, but you know, your context and the world that you're, that you're in mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I was just thinking about when you were talking about that time when everything crashed and you couldn't ignore it anymore, and it was like, at the forefront, I have to ask for help. Like, this is a real thing I deal with, and I just find that so incredibly relatable. Um, you know, as we explore these, these topics in our writing and go on this journey and those moments becoming a gift to someone else. Hmm. You know, and it's interesting because I am like kind of re part of being an emerging writer for me is emerging into a new era of actually asking for help as a writer. Mm. Because I help writers. I've been doing it for 25 years, and I suddenly said, I've been through some hard things and I have been ignoring it for a long time.
Speaker 6 00:20:38 Yeah. And so this like, um, connecting to you what you've been through and then giving that gift for others, but it also empowers you to finally come to that place where you ask for help, where you say, look, this is a real thing. Um, I think with trauma, with illness, in my case, it, it was childhood trauma mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But when we revisit those things and they say, hello, don't ignore me anymore, these are also pivotal moments in our writing and gifts for others. For sure. Yeah. It's absolutely empowering and yeah, it, I think it's really helpful to others, for others to, like, when they read a scene and they identify with something in your life, it's helping them to contextualize what's happened in their own life. Um, even if they're identifying with the opposite, if they're like, my life is no, not like that at all. Right. Like, you still, you still learn, really learn from that. And, um, and I think that's really beautiful and really important. And I think it connects us to each other and our experiences, and it helps us all understand where we are and our interdependence. And I mean, I think good memoir, really, it helps the writer, it helps the reader, it helps, um, it helps us increase our feeling of belonging to both to ourselves and to each other, you know? Mm. So beautifully said.
Speaker 6 00:22:13 Yeah. Okay. So I think it's time for us to switch gears. And now I'm gonna ask a few questions of Christie, um, about her process here as we are working together this month of October. And what I'd love to start with and what we've talked about a little bit before is like, how has this residency affected your writing process versus how it is usually when you're at home in Florence? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Well, gosh, this is just amazing. This has been the most wonderful discovery for me because I thought I knew my writing process <laugh>. I was like, I've got it all figured out. You know, I've been doing this a long time. Um, but you don't realize juggling the different things, how that affects you. It is, for me, a real eye-opener to discover that, um, in a lot of ways I've been on the surface of things, even things, you know, I've written and felt good about.
Speaker 6 00:23:21 But, um, now I'm able to look at the relationship between the different things I write. Hmm. And not be interrupted, not have to jump up and take care of something else. Um, and we talked about, you know, um, life with a baby. I mean, it was very clear what those interruptions were and being a mom and, and, but my kids are grown. And, um, I do have adorable, um, children in my life and in my home, but, um, I don't have that level of responsibility. And so even though I do have, um, a lot of autonomy, I have my own business, I have lots of meetings, and I have the day-to-day, um, interactions with my partner and, you know, life and taking that away, um, has enabled me to go so much deeper. And I've gotten my brain back, <laugh>, it feels so good. And even conversations you and I had sparked things, um, because there's such receptivity and there's time, like, oh, whatever I hear from Melissa, I can go and explore it, you know, 10 minutes from now or tomorrow morning, you know, without interruption.
Speaker 6 00:24:46 And so, books I've been reading have started sinking deeper and making, reading an important time in my residency. Like, it's not just about scrolling all those words on, on the page, which is what I do in my day-to-day life. I do spend time making sure at least I write, but now I'm stepping back and seeing the bigger picture. So I'm able to write and then connect that to other things I wrote, and also take it through the full process, at least in my head. So in my, in my book, I don't talk a lot about it. I'm gonna have to be a better example to you about talking about your own books. After they come out. <laugh>, I'll, I'll work on that. But in, in Burn Wild, I talk about this five step process of writing. And the final step, and this is kind of cute, it's, it's, it began when I worked with children.
Speaker 6 00:25:47 Um, the final step is Publisher's Palace. It's getting published, it's sharing your work. And this is the part when, um, I was in a classroom where the kids would get a crown and they would sit and they would tell their stories. Um, well, as a writing coach and facilitator and doing all the other things I just said for years, I don't have time for that. Let's just write and we're not gonna worry about the world. And, um, the pandemic really worked for me and showing me, look, you've got time now. You're not running around in the car and going to a class and going to this and that, and let's, let's, um, spend time on your publishing. And so I began to do that, and that just led to more and more. And now in the residency, I can see the interaction of things that, um, are in the beginning stages and things that I'm ready to send out to the world.
Speaker 6 00:26:53 Hmm. And maybe things I've already sent and shared or have been published or are, you know, taking a different form. Um, I don't know if that makes a whole lot of sense, but I am a writer who writes a lot of different things. Hmm. And I have felt for a long time really scattered, and I've just let that be like, oh, well, I'm scattered. Um, but now I'm discovering I'm not scattered. It's really helpful to have an environment where I can slow down and look at the big picture. So I have in front of me this giant, um, piece of butcher paper, which I was graciously, um, granted here. It's, um, from the, um, publishing house that we have, we have all these beautiful stations and houses and, um, I just doodled on this giant paper, all the different things I write. Actually, I left a few things off, but the main things that are kind of on my heart or below the surface.
Speaker 6 00:28:07 And it was incredibly helpful to see the connections and things I didn't think were connected as I made this mind map, so to speak. Um, things that I thought were an opposite ends of the spectrum are actually talking to each other. For example, I write memoir and I write speculative fiction. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, well, recently, and you and I talked about this just a little last week, my speculative fiction and my memoir have found a way to actually merge <laugh>. Some of the stories I thought were memoirs magic is happening in them. And, um, vice versa. Sometimes I'll just write a story. It has nothing to do with me. So I think, and then an experience that I've lived just is right square in the middle of that story. Hmm. Um, so it's, it's extremely exciting to me because it's about integrating, and I really believe in opening to be more integrated humans and that it requires our taking in our traumas, our challenges, all the things we've been through. Um, but I have found that when I'm stressed or or busy, I tend to be fragmented. Hmm. So this has been incredible in so many ways. Wow. That's so beautiful. And just for those of you listening, like this butcher paper that Christie has unrolled on the floor is like, I don't know, seven feet long with huge circles and like, you know, a mind map of only a real big one, <laugh>, <laugh>.
Speaker 6 00:29:50 Um, so yeah, there's a lot of interconnections there mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, just to kind of follow up or, I mean, I also, I agree that like, the pacing is a really huge part of the process. Like the going back between reading and moving and writing. Like for me at home, I'll do a little bit of writing and then, you know, I'll take a break and then I have to kind of move over to my day job. But the amazing thing about being here is all the breaks for processing and where the ideas are sort of percolating and doing their thing in the background, and then you can come right back to them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like you say, it really is like a, a pretty magical experience to have all the burners simmering on your writing at the same time, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. That's a good way of looking at it and finding that result.
Speaker 6 00:30:44 The what's being brewed is wonderful. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and something you never could have like consciously created. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, you, you may have already answered this question, but is there anything that you've learned about your process specifically from, from being here? Yeah. I really could talk about this for a while, <laugh>. So, so feel free to stop me. Um, but I am finding out that the integrating of things is so much more possible than I thought. Part of the fragmentation, I think, has been kind of a coping mechanism in a way. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, almost compartmentalizing. And as a young child, and I just referred to early trauma that I had, um, growing up with a severely mentally disabled single parent, um, I would live in a fantasy world that was my escape. So I could write stories, I could read stories, I could make things up. But I was not about to face my reality <laugh>.
Speaker 6 00:31:58 So many years later, when I finally started writing actual stories of things that happened to me, um, I was like, oh, wow, look, I have this other possibility. But it wasn't till now I feel like 10 minutes ago, <laugh>, that I discovered I can do, I can toggle both in the same day, and they, it, it would be like maybe in December I would work on a fantasy story, and then that would be gone. And, you know, for the rest of the year I'd work on, um, personal experience stories or creative nonfiction or whatever. And, and, and a lot of that is the scarcity of time. There isn't time, but here in the morning, I've been working on the hard stuff because writing memoir as, as you know, takes a lot out of you emotionally. Sometimes it's, there's an element of trauma there. So I do that first, the hard part, um, and then take a break walk or, or whatever, and then come back and do, um, a speculative fiction story, a fantasy piece, and that they, they work really well that way.
Speaker 6 00:33:11 Honestly, I always said, I can't do two stories in a day. I had no idea. So, what's possible, um, when we are in a different environment, when things are shifted, it's incredible. And I'm, I'm still in this aha moment. Mm-hmm. Like, it's not done. It just feels like it's just beginning. Yeah. It really sounds like a lot of integration is happening for you this month, and that's amazing. Um, and like, speaking of integrating our full selves, like you mentioned the walks, and I know there's so many beautiful trails and beaches here to explore. Um, can you talk a little bit about your integration with the landscape and how that's affected your process? Yeah. Like I said, it, it's been incredible to have, um, everything right here. And as someone who uses nature and walking as a healing modality, it's super, super important to me. Um, and to do that, um, you know, usually like, it's, it's kind of an interruption.
Speaker 6 00:34:26 Like you have to stop and figure out where you're gonna go and, you know, make a plan and end the day. And here you can, I can just drop things and just step outside and catch a trail or walk into town. There are so many beautiful trails that go up along Admiral t Inlet up to, um, these amazing, wonderful fort warden sites. Like, um, artillery Hill is just fascinating. It's like a steampunk landscape of these old war abandoned bunkers. Um, it, I've had some really interesting adventures already, which, um, again, you and I talked about people that I've met, unusual settings, but, um, having this right here, I think I've walked 80 miles this Oh my goodness, this month. Yeah. So far. Um, and that hasn't been hard. It's been effortless. Um, but it's, it's a way again of, of like, now I'm gonna be with the body.
Speaker 6 00:35:26 I also do that with yoga, or if it's, it's been really smoggy the past couple days, so I've kind of substituted the yoga for the walking. But, um, ways to be, be in the body and ways to let the beauty of the landscape, um, interact. You, you're not alone in the world. You're not by yourself. Look at what else is here. There's an ocean. There's, um, I watch some sea otters playing the other night. I couldn't believe it. I just looked out and there were these tiny little shapes in their tails and their, and it was astonishing <laugh>. And, um, that pause. I think one of the things I love most about nature, and in particular this landscape is just so beautiful, um, as part of the northwest, is that we can become witnesses. We, we stop trying to be center stage, and we let whatever is around us give us a sense of awe or appreciation. And ultimately, as a human being, when I get out of the way and I become a witness to the process of life and to what life Capital L is doing in me, um, that is a such an enormous place and makes room for all kinds of grace and spiritual communion. Yeah. It's like allowing the, the wilderness to happen inside yourself no matter where you are. Beautifully said. It expands. Yeah.
Speaker 6 00:37:05 Hmm. Exactly. Um, in terms of like what you're exploring in your work right now, um, could you talk a little bit about that and maybe like the challenges that you're, you're working on or, or what you, what you love the most about your writing in this, in this moment? Sure. Thank you. Well, I think that again, um, you know, two weeks ago I would've said the challenges are finding enough time to do all the kinds of writing that I love. Um, but now I'm beginning to feel this excitement, like now that I know it's possible, I think I am receiving more of a mandate to do it <laugh> to figure it out. <laugh>. Yeah. There's nowhere to turn here. Yeah. I can't pretend that, oh, I just can't do that. And that's kind of what the pandemic did for me as well. It said, look, you, you can have this other piece, you know, let's, let's revisit it.
Speaker 6 00:38:07 Let's go back to sending out the work. So, um, um, the challenge has been making all the time for it, but, um, and the flip side of that, there are very doable strategies. And even hearing you talk about dealing with chronic illness and dealing with disability and all the things that you do, um, there are strategies that are available. But again, the flip side is I love being diverse. I love that I write a million kinds of things. I love that I can't be put in a box <laugh>, and if you put me in one box, I'll sneak out the corner and I'll find some other cute little box somewhere else. I also do, you know, visual art. I also do, I also love to sing. You know, I'm not gonna, um, um, alienate myself from my own favorite modalities, forms of art, things that I love.
Speaker 6 00:39:06 So it's something that I love that I can bring in so many things. And then I use these things as beautiful gateways to, um, an exercise, to an idea in a class, to something to help another writer. And so that's, that's even fun. But honestly, I've spent a lot of time focusing on my coaching, and so I've almost put myself a band on it. We're not gonna talk about coaching. We're not gonna coach anybody for a month. Yeah. I love you guys, <laugh>, all you clients, all my students. I adore you, but I think you know what I'm talking about because I even hear it echoed back to you about you. Yeah. It does take up, it takes up so much of your brain space. Yes, it does. And reflecting on somebody else's story and the feedback you're gonna give. Yes. Yeah. And we have to find that mm-hmm. <affirmative>
Speaker 6 00:39:55 And that's, that's a way I can help others and inspire them too. Yeah. Um, I see that, I mean, I know you write both fiction and non-fiction, and I know that you are wildly diverse in the types of things that you do. <laugh>. Um, can you talk a little bit about like the, the differences between them in, you know, like how you feel when you're writing or what, what your process is? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, actually, I'm gonna say just a little, but what I'm gonna say is something I love mm-hmm. <affirmative> that I heard. Um, Lydia Yuk Neic say in a workshop, and she is so amazing mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And she said a few years ago, I no longer make a distinction between fiction and non-fiction. And I was like, wow. And I think if I would've heard that 10 years earlier, 15 years earlier, I would've said, I don't know what you're talking about, <laugh>, <laugh>.
Speaker 6 00:40:55 But again, as, as I was talking about how my speculative affection and the memoir even, you know, how they, they talk, um, we are, our memory and our imagination are so closely intertwined. We don't ever really know what actually happened <laugh>. And so, um, you know, there is, there is a spectrum. And I think sometimes I, I tell myself, well, can I probably mostly tell the truth with this piece, but then I find I need to change a name or I need to, you know, allow for a little difference of a fact here or there. Um, other times I've set out to say, you know, I'm, this is a wonderfully imaginative story. Maybe it's a ya story. I love to white write, um, for young adults. Um, but then suddenly I realize that the crux of of that character's pain is something that I've been through.
Speaker 6 00:41:56 So I'm, I'm letting those boundaries not be so fixed. And I love this quote, um, that Lydia Yakovich said in an interview, stories change just like the lives we've lived and selves we've inhabited. Nobody's been the same person twice. Hmm. Beautiful. Yeah, what you were saying reminded me also of a similar quote from Ariel Gore, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna botch it, um, in terms of the numbers, but she says something like, either I'm in one of her early books, she was, she said, either I'm writing not either I'm writing fiction, which is 75% true, or I'm writing memoir, which is 75% false. Like, there is, it kind of like encapsulates that idea of Lydia is that there's so much, um, wavering between these categories. They're not, they're not fixed.
Speaker 6 00:42:58 Beautiful. Wow. We have covered a lot of ground. I'm thinking we've got one last question that we're both going to answer. Maybe I'll ask that of you, Christie first <laugh>, which is what advice would you now give to the beginning writer you once were? Wow. I do love this question, and I find that it would depend on the day, like what advice I'm, I'm feeling and thinking for my, uh, earlier version, my younger self. Um, but I think to make time for all the phases and all the things you love, and maybe they won't all happen in a single day, but it's possible to prioritize that and to think critically. Even, you know, some, some very, um, important strategies went into place by the beautiful people at Centrum that made this residency possible. And can I take that mantle on myself and make things possible? So in a way I'm giving myself advice to that writer of 20 years ago or so, but also of next week, um, the writer that I'm gonna be next year, um, and pretty much say, look, this is important and you can do it, and it will take some thinking and some organizing.
Speaker 6 00:44:31 Hmm. But, um, it's worth it. Slow down, look at the big picture and make time for it. Hmm.
Speaker 6 00:44:42 Yeah. That's something I think we all need to hear <laugh>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And for you, for you. So what advice would you give to the beginning writer you once were? So I would tell myself to really let go of the myth of independence. Um, there's that myth of the artist in the tower who's isolated, a solitary genius, you know, just doing their work and any connection with the outside world or feedback really just like muddies the waters and like, makes their vision less pure. And that is such a load of bull. Like, we need each other. We need writers to talk to. We need the readers feedback. I mean, I really think if you wanna be part of a cultural conversation, um, as a writer, that's what you're doing. You, you need to be part of it. You can't just isolate yourself. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And even in terms of craft, I mean, you can spend 10 years like reading books and improving your craft and, but maybe you could learn the same thing in an afternoon in a writing workshop if you would just, you know, like make some friends in the community. So I just like that interdependence thing, which is also a key theme in disability justice. You know, like we need each other. We need each other as artists, we need each other as people. I would say, Alyssa, get out the door and share your work. Don't be afraid. Like these are your people. Mm. Beautiful. Wow. I have so loved this time with you. I feel so lucky to know you. Aw, likewise, Christie.
Speaker 6 00:46:22 Okay. Thanks everybody. Thanks for joining us and see you next time.
Speaker 7 00:46:29 Thank you for joining us today. This podcast was recorded and edited by staff at Centrum. Music is by table or Dark and Cover Hard is by Leon Finley, both alums of centrums Residency program. If you've enjoyed this series, please check out our archive of Artist Conversations and other podcasts available wherever you listen. Leave us a review and share with a friend that helps support and head over to centrum.org to learn about our programs, become a participant or donate. We are grateful to have you in our creative community and look forward to bringing you more conversations from artists and creatives.
